Thursday 18th of April 2024
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the confusing angel dust...

ahteist's heaven

From the AAI website: On Wednesday, Pope Francis addressed people from all walks of life by claiming that anyone who does ‘good’ will go to heaven, even atheists.

Pope Francis has been the first in many aspects of his papacy: first Pope from the Americas, first Jesuit Pope, and first to use Francis as a regnal name. However, he is not among the first to take a more universalist approach. Pope John XXIII began the Second Vatican Council in 1962, stating he wanted to “throw open the windows of the Church so that we can see out and the people can see in.” That council went on to be more accepting of others, but their acceptance focused primarily on other types of Christ-based religions. Many Christians, from Origen in the third century to Madeleine L’Engle in the twenty first century, have argued for a universal acceptance to heaven, but never has a Pope so concretely stated that morality, not faith, is the way to heaven. With such a broad change from the denominationally strict tendencies of his predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, what does Pope Francis’ Wednesday morning mass mean for nonbelievers?

Pope Francis alluded to the Gospel of Mark during his mass, telling a story of Jesus’ disciples seeing another man do good and complaining that “if he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not our party, he cannot do good.” The Pope explained that Jesus tells his disciples not to “hinder him” and they should “let him do good.” It appears that the Pope is paralleling the story found on Mark 9:39-40. This book was likely the first of the four canonical gospels, having been written around 60 C.E. It provides the early groundwork for what modern Christians believe, such as being the only gospel to refer to Jesus as a carpenter. With such significance, shouldn’t Mark’s universalist undertones have come to light sooner? Additionally, Mark isn’t the only one arguing for acceptance: “Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you” (Luke 9:50). With all of these apparent allusions, why is Pope Francis the first to openly accept all people? There is a simple answer: the Bible is unreliable.

In the New Testament, Paul explains the importance of faith, not good deeds, to the Ephesians: “for by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). The Gospel of John, one of the four canonical gospels, explicitly says “Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to Father, but through Me.’” (14:6). The reason that Pope Francis is the first to argue for a universal acceptance to heaven through good deeds is because he specifically looked for a section of the New Testament that would defend his claims. With so many contradictory tales in the Bible, stories can be chosen or ignored depending on the lecturer’s intended message. Just a few sections before the story of Jesus accepting everyone who is “not against us”, it is revealed that the man so despised by the disciples isn’t performing ‘good’ in general, but actually driving out demons (Mark 9:38; Luke 9:49). Clearly this wouldn’t apply to most people, especially the atheist subjects of Pope Francis’ mass, so he skipped over that part to focus on what he found important.

Questions of ‘true’ biblical meaning and individual interpretation aside, the bigger question of ‘why’ still shadows over the seemingly positive step for Catholicism: why does Pope Francis intend to include more people to the already one billion Catholics worldwide? With a diluted version of Christianity where a person no longer needs to accept Jesus Christ to go to heaven, literally everyone who is ‘good’ becomes eligible for salvation. Through his words, Pope Francis apparently deems everyone ‘Christian’ if they manage to live a good life. This seems to insinuate that the head of Catholicism is intentionally loosening the meaning of being a Christian, but it isn’t clear what his goal is in doing so. Does Pope Francis intend to allow Catholicism to lose its meaning, potentially beginning a fall of organized religion from the inside? This seems unlikely. Perhaps, then, Pope Francis is hoping to broaden the definition of Christianity in order to widen his grasp, and thus Catholic influence, worldwide. Only time will tell.

http://atheistalliance.org/news-a-articles/archive/652-exceptthere-is-no-heaven

be a bloody good boy (or girl)...

LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - The Holy Father is full of surprises, born of true and faithful humility. On Wednesday he declared that all people, not just Catholics, are redeemed through Jesus, even atheists. 

However, he did emphasize there was a catch. Those people must still do good. In fact, it is in doing good that they are led to the One who is the Source of all that is good. In essence he simply restated the hope of the Church that all come to know God, through His Son Jesus Christ. 

Francis based his homily on the message of Christ to his disciples taken from the Gospel of Mark. Francis delivered his message by sharing a story of a Catholic who asked a priest if atheists were saved by Christ. 

"They complain," Francis said, "If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good." He explained that Jesus corrected them, "Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good." 

The disciples, Pope Francis explained, "were a little intolerant," closed off by the idea of possessing the truth, convinced that "those who do not have the truth, cannot do good." "This was wrong... Jesus broadens the horizon." Pope Francis said, "The root of this possibility of doing good - that we all have - is in creation."

"Even them, everyone, we all have the duty to do good, Pope Francis said on Vatican Radio. 

"Just do good" was his challenge, "and we'll find a meeting point." 

Francis explained himself, "The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart, do good and do not do evil. All of us. 'But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.' Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ, all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone!" We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: we will meet one another there." 

http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=51077

Very jesuit of the pope to compare god to us or vice verso... humbling, isn't it?... Holy macaroni... God must be a confused sod when looking at himself through us...

So the vengeful god of the bible is no more?... and Hell is a kitchen run by a three star chef, not a back burner stoked by the devil?...

Meanwhile is good, good enough? Surely not considering Author Jim Collins sells a book called "Good to Great" in regard to the greater god of money and the glory of efficient business greed... if greed does good, then greed can look god in the eyes, by appointment or seminar or video-link?... What is good?... One need about ten life-times to answer this relative question...


the christian case for polygamy...

 

From The American Conservative:

My first reaction to the Supreme Court decision overturning the Defense of Marriage Act and leaving California’s Proposition 8 overturned was to think: “Note to future historians: we just revoked the Edict of Milan.” History buffs will recall that this edict was Constantine’s fiat offering toleration to Christians, issued almost exactly 1,700 years ago. That golden moment marked the end of the persecuted Church and the beginning of Christian civilization.

There were dark moments, too, which started when Constantine’s successor Theodosius began to persecute Roman pagans and use the state’s coercive power to aid the Church. Like most modern Christians, I deplore that decision and all that flowed from it—the heresy trials, inquisitions, pogroms, and persecutions that dragged on for centuries. But I’m not surprised: while some kind of state is necessary, it is also very dangerous—doubly so, given our fallen nature. Power doesn’t just corrupt, it attracts the already corrupt, the envious, the resentful who crave the chance to micromanage and punish. How tempting it is for entrenched and lazy businessmen to use the police and prisons to enshrine their wealth in law; for sullen, slacking workers to quash fair competition; for corrupt and worldly churchmen to silence dissenters and reformers. (Imagine if the bishops who shuffled pedophiles around had held the power to censor the press.) It is rare indeed for a state to resist all the pressures of those who would distort the rule of law and ignore the common good to serve their private interests; for citizens with strong opinions on how their neighbors should live to respect their human dignity and leave them largely alone; for institutions of civil society to spurn the proffered privileges (and secret strings) that the state extends.

The rise of same-sex marriage marks the end of the long, slow fight the Christian church has waged to keep legal marriage analogous to a sacramental covenant. But these Supreme Court decisions and all their consequences arguably became inevitable some 200 years ago, when the French revolutionaries created “civil marriage,” removing the church’s legal jurisdiction over this contract. At that moment, the meaning of marriage lost its anchor in an authoritative reading of man’s nature and flew off like a kite into the winds of human passions and opinion. We have been rushing about ever since attempting to grab the string and tie it to something else—the best interests of children, the common good, “republican virtue” (in France)—but nothing resists the gale.

read more: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/towards-a-christian-libertarian-marriage-alliance/