It's not just Downer who lies. As far as my considered opinion takes me, the majority of the Liberal Government belongs in prison, charged with treason against the Australian public.

What rhymes with Ruddock? I reckon the rhyme is Rumsfeld :)

  But anyhow, have a look at this site. It's something I said from day one: "History will tell who was involved in 911." Of course I got laughed at. When I found this site some time ago, I finally knew, that I am not the only one thinking the way I think.

www.reopen911.org/

So no-one flew two airliners into the buildings huh? All those cameras and pictures were fake? You're insane.
Do you actually know what treason is defined as under the Crimes Act?

A bit overzealous perhaps, but not insane. Go get the videos that were publicly released, slow em right down and SEE for yourself the explosions which occurred before the planes crashed into the WTC. The go get the vid and pix of the pentagon and see where the wreckage is. (not inside, mate, the original hole was only 16 ft diameter. The tailsection of a 757 is 40ft tall)...its all wrong.

Alexander Downer is following the party line and the party line follows the US line which tells lies. Make no mistake, we do what we are told to do and say what we are told to say, Downer along with the rest of them. That's why in the face of overwhelming public opinion condemning our involvement in Iraq, Howard will risk the next election and plough on regardless. He has no choice. It woudn't be any different if Labor or the Dems were in power. Now there's a conspiracy theory for ya!

Oh, but of course those planes flew into the WTC. We all saw it on TV, and it happened. However, show me one piece of evidence (be it a picture or a video) where we can see a plane connecting with the Pentagon! Show me one piece of visual evidence, and I shut up.

Sure I am insane. So was Nietsche. Thanks for the compliment.

. . . And what about the "4th" plane? Maybe I am just ignorant, but I truly can't remember any TV coverage of that either. All I saw was a field after the fact.

Hmmm.

Thanks for your support <smile>.

Question however: 'Overzealous' has different meanings, and I looked it up in the dictionary.

Which of the following are you applying to me? Enthusiastic, Keen, Passionate, Fervent, Ardent, Fanatical, Obsessive, Eager, Extreme, coz I think, there is quite a different meaning to those words within themselves.

I must say that I have always strongly felt that something wasn't right and something didn't add up in relation to September 11. Especially with the Pentagon and also in relation to the extent of the damage of the Twin Towers.

Personally, I believe that, as per process and procedure, we are being kept in the dark and unfortunately I do feel that September 11 was either allowed to happen or helped to happen in order to inflame the tension with our Muslim neighbours. And boy did it work!

I wish I didn't feel that way, but I do.

Wow. I'm not convinced yet of some sort of cover-up of previous knowledge of S11, but I am amazed at how many people are. Either the US government is capable of an unthinkable level of terror on its own people, or a hell of a lot of people think that's the case. Either way, it's too extraordinary a possibility to contemplate.

It is clear that the event was manipulated to serve pre-ordained military and political agendas.

I was hoping that this site might be open to the more "radical" viewpoint but it seems that anything outside the mainstream runs the risk of being called insane. Well book me into the local mental ward 'cause I think the rabbit hole is going to prove to be a lot deeper yet. Let's respect each others viewpoints and keep it nice and friendly like.

So you think it's to extraordinary to contemplate?

I hate to say this, but most Germans never ever thought that the truth of terror against Germans could take on the shape of gas chambers.

Contemplating the so called 'Impossible' always takes one further to the truth. Clearing ones own mind from what is said, written and watched on TV, and listening to ones own feelings (we call it guts) arrives at the truth! NOT contemplating possibilities is failure.

 However I am not contemplating in this case.

I am convinced history will show what really happened on 9/11, and who called the shots (pardon the pun).

I just like to add something I wrote on the 14th of September. It was even put at the memorial wall at ground zero by a friend of mine. Maybe it's still there.

Look at the second last paragraph of what I wrote. I have been sharing a lot of more tears since then. I was right then, I am right now. .............................................

To the American People

The sadness of loss has come to my land
We live oceans apart, yet united we'll stand

You're Country was home for a couple of years
Now I'am sitting here, and am sharing your tears

What happened that day, is beyond my believe
My soul full of sadness, my heart full of grieve

Although not related, I lost Brothers and Sisters
Unbearable pain, and my mind full with blisters

Where do we go now? I am full of fears
Will I have to share a lot of more tears?

My thoughts are with you, and the thoughts of my Nation
When evil is wiped, we will call celebration

Wolf (South Australia)

Since then, I have learned where and who the 'Evil' actually is

Former Liberal foreign minister Alexander Downer says comments he made about Kevin Rudd have been misinterpreted.

News Limited is today reporting that Mr Downer gave Mr Rudd information that he knew that Mr Rudd would then leak.

The report says Mr Downer claims Mr Rudd then used it by feeding it to the media to embarrass Labor's then foreign affairs spokesman Laurie Brereton.

Mr Rudd eventually replaced Mr Brereton as shadow foreign affairs minister.

But Mr Downer has released a statement this morning saying the interpretation placed on the comments he made are "wrong".

"The interpretation placed on my comments to the Sunday Telegraph is wrong," he said.

"Kevin Rudd was not used by me or other members of the Liberal Party as a so-called 'double agent' to leak material against other members of the Labor Party."

-----------------------------------

Gus: yes Alex Clowner has always been flat-footedly ambiguous, since he never read emails nor documents relating to whatever — including AWB... If the Labor leaders are accused of showing poor attendance to national security meetings, Downer takes the cake for being over-pushy — ignoring anything and everthing that showed clearly he was wrong on all issues, including Saddam WMDs for which he gave us an earful at least 8,000 times...

As he ever apologised for telling crap? No, he got a pat on the back from a smiling Rattus the first. And Rattus the second (or the Turd) is part of this conspiracy...

Wait for more crap from Tony. Unfortunately, some people in the electorate are like blow flies — they are attracted to it as if it was the best smelling thing on earth. See toon at top.

Well said Gus!!!

Oakes is like the ballast in a ship - without it the ship may well capsize but - who other than the Navy even knows or cares about the ballast?  Oakes does - and so does the foreign Corporations in Australia.

While I am sure that, in the final analysis, the media provides the information by which we, the plebes, will judge our final votes, it is terribly difficult to explain this obvious abuse of privilege to the ordinary working families of Australia.

For over a decade they have been progressively denied justice in the workplace by Employer Unions (26 of them I believe) and by the Howard "New Order" WorkChoices - Howard and Abbott's most proud achievements?

Most often they don’t have the time to worry about anything more expensive than a newspaper, or a radio or even a TV so they are captive to the most tabloid type of information which, by successive governments of both major persuasions have allowed - and even used to their advantage.

IMHO, when I look back, I cannot remember a time when a Labor government denied justice to working people.  After Kevin Rudd’s Labor party election, he tried like Whitlam, to be reformist before the media crushed his popularity – and now their previous favoritism of Julia was clearly shown to be the divisive sham that it was.  NEVER trust the “for profit” media.

The opposition’s foreign Corporations and media IOU’s must be enormous with the current blatant protection of “The Mad Monk” – Australia and Labor’s biggest advantage approaching the Murdoch election. His entire inherent DNA has been shamefully, and intentionally, covered by the unsubstantiated leaks of the Oakes’/Downer/Bishop Allegations!  Allegations did I say? I can’t remember reading that in either of the MSM.  Funny that hey?

“The more you get the more you want” is, unfortunately, the objective of the Major foreign Corporations but also of the working people who have so obviously benefited from the short tenure of a Labor government. An example of what could happen if Labor – not necessarily Rudd – not necessarily Gillard – has a chance to “share the wealth”.

Most of our people of all nationalities and religions have profited from the Rudd/Gillard short years in government, and like the Whitlam DISSMISSAL the Labor government was swept to power by a subdued people who media had been convinced that their very existence depended on “investment” when it was actually SELLING THE PEOPLES’ ASSETS to the biggest buyer.  A garage sale?  But – leaving a surplus of money with less assets.  That’s nice.

As a footnote, and I have no special like for Jolly Joe, but, does anyone other than myself remember some time ago before the declaration of the election, that the Shadow Treasurer Hockey stated at an interview that their actions were in no way related to the DISSMISSAL? He wasn’t asked, he just said it? Is honesty Joe’s weakness?

The difference between me and Oakes is that I genuinely remember the incident on TV but I am probably alone and the good part is that my belief is not ANONYMOUS. I am however, putting this to the forum in case someone else remembers it – it was fleeting but it resonated with me.

The calculated media blitz to disenfranchise the elected labor government in 1975 was just as much an effort to destroy the “Lucky Country” as it is now.

The insult of the media electing the government is bad enough but, where outside of this independent forum, can an over eighteen voter go to find out the truth?

With all of the shameful history of the neo-conservatives the worst is that “Abbott will decide what the people will be told and how he will tell it”.

God Bless Australia and may we plebes vote for our nation, not the foreigners and their dual citizenships in our country.  NE OUBLIE.

G'day Wolf,

There was never any doubt in my mind that the Bush/Cheney accepted investigation was flawed and showed it from the start.  However, after time and with a small diversion of an invasion of Afghanistan for no legitimate reason - the obvious blunders and cover up facts of that tragedy are still alive and well.

One fact has stood out and media ignored since that day so many innocent people died for the glory of “the Emperor” – and that is that it suited the Republicans in the white house for a war they wanted but couldn’t justify.

If we take a quick gander at the war history of the US we find that in every case a “heinous act against our democracy” was convenient when required.

Perhaps the most revealing facts on that day is Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 911 documentary.

However, at varying times, some claims well apart chronologically, were made by - for example, the FBI; the CIA; the Federal Police forces; and even the specially formed Homeland Protection Agency – plus others – all are claimed to have had some information on the activities of the alleged culprits but - due to the competition between the over-governed US people – they didn’t collectively decide to do anything.  I just don’t believe that.

Someone in our forum queried the planes doing the job on the towers and the films were correct but – from the start I wondered why anyone would already be prepared to have a major filming outfit which covers the planes courses, from an excellent photo angle, even before the planes are in sight.

Later we learned that three Journalists from “Israel” were jumping up and down excitedly while the massive collapse (straight down) of the towers took place.  When arrested and questioned by police one of them stated that they were there simply there to film the event? They were then released and allowed to leave the country along with the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia whose citizens were alleged to be the perpetrators.

To further muddy the waters, the media at first reported that some 4,000 Jewish employees in the Twin Towers did not attend work on that day. After the effect of this statement was felt, it was roundly denied but, without reasonable excuse.  My Wife and I checked up on Jewish holidays and 9/11 was not one of them.

The Twin Towers did not survive an attack for which they were supposed to be built to resist and yet – the builder claimed that they were to protect themselves from 727’s NOT 747’s.  Fair dinkum.

And Wolf, Tower number 7 which was insured by its recent owner Silverstein for billions of dollars a few months before the attack, refused to collapse and most people escaped. Then it collapsed with very doubtful excuses.

So, unexplained issues include why the Mayor of New York claimed that Ground Zero was non-toxic and safe to be cleaned up when hundreds of public servants who braved the toxins have since died of cancer.

The photos of the alleged 15 Saudi Arabians and 2 others, (if I remember correctly) were posted and yet, what proof is there that they were the perpetrators or that they even existed.  With today’s technology, it would be more than easy to make photos of non-existent people?

Or did they go through the rubble and find bits and pieces which they could safely identify - by DNA perhaps - as the perpetrators of this heinous crime? The historic “blame the Negros and hang them” simplification for all problems in the US was put aside while an equally innocent Afghanistan was invaded.

It was imperative that the facts of that day be hidden and skewed to a point where the very safety of every single American citizen was claimed to be in jeopardy.  Fair dinkum.

IMHO, the most critical danger to the American people is not without, but within.

And as an aside, we Australians are also facing the unbridled power to elect that has been fostered in our country to satisfy the absurd “honor system” of privately owned media.  Struth.

And at least Australian Federal Labor can safely say that “They hate us for our values”.  But Murdoch would not allow that to be printed would he???

Cheers Wolf,

Ern.

I hope that my explanation to Wolf has some resonance with you?

Of course you are right - the fact is that it did happen and the films IMHO were authentic but, the doubts which surround almost every aspect of that day are still without cohesive claims by the then incumbent G.W. Bush Republican administration - or with the lame (JFK Assassination) variables and indefinite findings.

I would like to debate you on the issue in this forum if you are of open mind.

John and Gus allow rare freedom for us, the outspoken minority in this once great country and I confidently claim that your opinion would be treated with respect.

Not necessarily by me.

Cheers,

Ern G.